Reader poll
Thursday, August 15, 2013
I am toying with the idea of re-joining the Conservative Party; an organisation for which I have very little current sympathy. It is a violent, statist party; interested far more in power than justice, honour or integrity. I have no doubt that I would feel rather soiled to be in its ranks.
David Cameron has systematically repudiated everything that ever passed for a principle among British Conservatives without winning a single vote from the Guardianisti and Mirroristi he was trying to triangulate. In consequence, his party's membership is now dangerously low. It could perhaps be taken over by people who are genuine believers in free markets and individual liberty; the very things Conservative politicians like to bandy about dishonestly in sound bites!
It is currently engaged in concealing its own membership numbers, which are widely believed to have fallen below 100,000. This is a number so low as possibly to comprise only those old biddies too confused to cancel their standing order! For a party that was once a mighty multi-million election-winning machine this is a humiliating fall from grace. Is it too fanciful to hope that from the ashes of British Conservatism the phoenix of British Liberty could rise? Perhaps so, but is it more fanciful than any other scenario you can plausibly devise?
To the extent they are aware of us at all most British electors see Libertarians as (in the American idiom) "Republicans on dope". Maybe it's time to get our hands dirty in an organisation they may not love but have at least actually heard of?
Thoughts for and against please?
Sure, that's absolutely going to happen when they have candidates that shoot themselves and their party in the foot as soon as say bongo-bongo land.
Sure, it _might_ attract one or two intellectual juveniles with no concept of "put brain into gear before..." but It puts more off way more thoughtful people than it attracts who would be deeply embarrassed to have someone that stupid representing them.
Posted by: Moggsy | Monday, August 19, 2013 at 08:28 AM
They don't deserve support. I'd rather sit back and wait for their Ceausescu moment.
Posted by: Richard Carey | Monday, August 19, 2013 at 02:08 AM
Well I'd say wait a couple years and then odds are you will be about 10% of the entire Tory Party and thus well positioned to shift them to more rational policies.
Posted by: Perry de Havilland | Sunday, August 18, 2013 at 02:43 PM
Join UKIP, both to hasten the demise of the Conservatives and to influence Farage. If sufficient people get together, as suggested above, they would have much more likelihood of obtaining a successful outcome via the UKIP route.
Posted by: Ed P | Sunday, August 18, 2013 at 01:43 PM
Dear Mr Paine
The Conservative Party is being destroyed, along with the Labour Party, in preparation for approved pan-EU parties. UKIP will be disposed of either by banning on some pretext or by regulating out of existence. This will happen around the same time as the Westminster parliament is declared redundant and the English countrycide completed, replaced by the nine EU regions.
All the great institutions of Britain are being hollowed out and destroyed from within, including the BBC.
The mass invasion and colonisation of England in particular is preparing the way for the final destruction of the English. Insurrections and civil unrest can be facilitated by the presence of multiple ethnic minorities, whose numbers are growing rapidly. Britain's population cannot be fed internally and food imports will be controlled by the EU. Disobey and the flow can be cut. Internal conflicts can be used as an excuse for UN or EU instigated regime change on 'humanitarian' grounds if required - i.e. if there is a spark of national pride left in England.
Hope this helps.
DP
Posted by: DP | Friday, August 16, 2013 at 09:28 PM
The strength of the Conservative Party, in my experience - I go back to the 1950s - was that it embodied the idea of social advancement. There were faults, pretensions, snobberies and hypocrisies involved in that - see John Mortimer's 'Paradise Postponed'- but it WAS based on traditional values; values which ensured stability and continuity. Nowawdays those people who would seek social advancement and acceptance are deferential to the 'liberal' values of Notting Hill, which are not Conservative. Whatever the label, those values are contemptuous of the innate assumptions which produced the social stability (however flawed) and certainties of yesteryear. Paradoxically, the current Tories are dependent in their current form on not being Conservatives. I see no hope in trying to change them from within. The only hope on my personal horizon, rests with UKIP. And how strong will that party be if it ever comes to power, in resisting pressures to trim their sails to the 'Liberal' wind of the day?
Posted by: Norman Brand | Friday, August 16, 2013 at 08:39 PM
Totally agree. If the libertarians (who're relatively strong in CF) can come to dominate the party, we can get our country back. No other means to get the libertarian message accross will ever present itself.
Remember though, the Conservative party (quite unashamedly) doesn't have "principles". What works, and what wins elections matter most. They are practical, not idealogical people. The quickest way to alienate a Conservative is to talk about abstract principles.
Always explain how and why the liberal solution works better, not because it's right, but because IT WORKS.
Posted by: Jackart | Friday, August 16, 2013 at 09:44 AM
Well at first I wasthinking Why? Why would you do that? The thought is kind of sleazy, so many seem to be authoritarian... ban this... make a law against that... the government ought to.. it shouldn't be allowed types..
But then I thought. Well if their numbers have dropped so low maybe it is possible to have a voice, to be heard. But come election time it would be necessary to get rid of (deselect?) some of their MPs and replace them with honest liberty minded candidates.
Could you muster enough people to do that? Would the Part rules allow you to do that? Don't forget their numbers are so low because the local party members are poweless and ignored.
Posted by: Moggsy | Friday, August 16, 2013 at 07:51 AM
"Single acts of tyranny" unfortunately nails the stumbling block... The party heirarchy treats the membership with utter contempt, imposes outside candidates on local associations and generally operates as a closed shop.
The only possible course of action would be to drum up enough support via net campaigns to get 100,000+ people, all with libertarian views, to join at one time... Then take over the party, sack the executive, de-select the parachuted-in candidates and attempt to get the constituency groups to select genuinely "Conservative" candidates. Or, to put it another way...
Im-bloody-possible.
Let's face it, Cameron and his clique have destroyed the tory party.
Save your money.
Posted by: Pogo | Thursday, August 15, 2013 at 11:59 PM
I agree with Single acts of tyranny, it would only create more frustration to see how local membership is ignored at each turn.
Even if a cadre of sensible real conservatives could exert some effort at the local level, a candidate of the PPE variety is likely to be parachuted in.
Continue going "Galt" and enjoy your retirement. There is very little that can be done to improve the UK, there are now too many takers not enough contributors. Redoubling your effort will not tilt the scale, sadly.
Posted by: cascadian | Thursday, August 15, 2013 at 11:28 PM
Sadly I think the Tory party is beyond help until the next general election. But after that all bets are off, anything could happen.
I can't see the Cameron/Osborne axis surviving May 2015. So a fork in the road will present itself between the authoritarian faux Thatcherite May and the dive down the rabbit hole with Boris.
I suppose anyone with a strong preference between these two options would be well advised to jump on board now and influence that choice in any way possible.
Posted by: Diogenes | Thursday, August 15, 2013 at 10:58 PM
Whilst I have some sympathy for singleactsoftyranny's view, it is a counsel of despair. And frankly, the alternatives are either even more unlikely to succeed, or unpalatable in the extreme.
The fact remains, a new party is unlikely to gain the traction needed in the time available, so a democratic route to change requires us to take control of an existing party. Of the available parties, the Conservatives are the obvious choice for the reasons Dick gives.
Posted by: patently | Thursday, August 15, 2013 at 10:12 PM
I've heard the same from truly liberal people in the LibDems - you know, fight the good fight from within - but they are consistently beaten down by the SDP element in the higher ranks.
It's an interesting idea with the Conservatives, especially since there is a significant contingent amongst back benchers of a more liberal bent, but they are restricted to the margins. It's an interesting plan though, even though I have an inkling that singleactsoftyranny is disappointingly being rightly pessimistic.
Posted by: Dick Puddlecote | Thursday, August 15, 2013 at 09:42 PM
sorry, good intentions and all but its pointless because;
1. the local parties have candidates imposed on 'em (statist, careerists all) and
2. the system is too far gone now, best leave a statist at the helm to crash and burn (akin to being a competent sailor on the titanic after the iceberg hit, promotionto captain is one to refuse)
Posted by: singleactsoftyranny | Thursday, August 15, 2013 at 08:58 PM
Yes, do it, but one one condition.
It mustn't be just you.
We have to gather up a good number of people with views that we share, and do it together. Then, launch a proper assault on the party. We can't have just Tom, we need to be an actual wing of the party. Enough to create our own fringe group at the next conference and start ringing the changes.
Get the people together here first, and then go for it.
I'm in if you are. That makes 2 so far, then.
Posted by: patently | Thursday, August 15, 2013 at 06:45 PM
Best of a bad lot. Some in the party are doing some good despite Cameron. Pickles, IDS, Gove and Lansley/Hunt. UKIP are a bunch of amateurs with a leader who does a good talk but lacks the intellect, does not do detail and does not allow those who are competent to do so do it. The rest all on the left Labour, Lib-Dims, Greens and other assorted loons are totally incompetent and highly dangerous to ones wealth and personal liberties.
Posted by: Antisthenes | Thursday, August 15, 2013 at 06:39 PM